Creation Guys Episode #003: “Intellectual Honesty”
On May 02, 2008 in Atheism, In the News, Science Related
Unfortunately, many people involved feel it is acceptable to ridicule and demean the character of their colleagues over what their views regarding cosmogony and the origin and diversification of life are.
Richard Dawkins stated that “It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I’d rather not consider that).” Statements like this are not honest, and are rather immature.
Join us in this episode as we cover Intellectual Honesty, and the current state of the Origins Debate.
“What God would use suffering and death to get what you want?” Who are you to judge or question God?
Couldn’t one ask with the same coin, what God would allow evil? What God would allow death at all? What God would create man with sin (rather than purify them before birth)?
What God would use a flood or destruction of two cities to teach the wrong of sin? What God would kill His own Son to prove He loves?
Yes, indeed people in the same field (Scott & Dawkins) disagree on how to present their case, don’t you? The same way you want to tell us ID and Creationism are different (despite the fact they are similar in philosophical underline, and I agree they are different). Who wouldn’t want to present their idea or theory in the most academically honest, scientifically sound, psychologically sensible and socially acceptable way?
“The real God made it right the very first time”
Yes of course, the very first time, that’s why he needed to flood us, destroy Sodom and Gomorah, and send his sinners to hell, quite a perfect example of “getting it right the very first time”
And SO WHAT if you break commandment #2? Aren’t you forgiven? Haven’t we all broken a few commandments by lying and lusting? (I’m not saying it’s OK).
“Atheists can’t find God the same way a thief can’t find a policemen”
This is not true, at least it’s not true for me and is not true for many people who claim to be atheists.
A skeptic DEMANDS TO BE CONVINCED , not avoid information they dislike, I DEMAND (with high standards) proof of the Biblical God, young Earth creation, and the historicity of Jesus.
And yes, I COMPLETELY agree with you we should be open-minded, we should let both sides speak, and those who fear, wish to censor alternative theories only lend credit to their opponents. I agree we shouldn’t straw man another person’s argument, and I certainly agree intelligent people can believe in creation, just as you may agree intelligent people can believe in evolution (regardless of whether it is true).
Josh,
If you don’t mind, please avoid multi-posting. Get your data together, organize it, and put it in one post. I’m working on plans for Episode #004 right now, but I will be back later to response.
Jonathan
I believe that was a rhetorical question to demonstrate that this type of god would be cruel, despicable, and retarded - not the God of the BIble.
The God that allows evil is the God that allows freewill. Without the option of evil, there is no freewill, and man is effectively a slave. Death was the result of man’s disobedience. A righteous God allows punishment. Suppose I asked you, “What type of judge would allow citizens freedom? Additionally, why type of judge would punish people for using their freedom how they wish!?” The answer, a just Judge.
What is wrong with God destroying a people that were in complete defiance of his commandments?
He didn’t kill Jesus, we - the sinners - are guilty of that. God allowed his Son to be “wounded for our transgressions” and “bruised for our iniquities”, in accordance with Isaiah 53:5. God allowed this to redeem a fallen people. According to God’s rational system, sin must be punished. To pay that type of debt requires a perfect sacrifice, which Jesus was the only in existence.
He’s referring to the biology of Creation. God didn’t need an iterative process to get man into existence, nor did he need billions of years of trial and error to somehow get sexual reproduction to work.
Forgiven, yes, if you’re saved. Regardless, we will still stand before God and give account of our actions, saved or not. How would you like to look into the eyes of the Creator of the Universe and tell him, “You weren’t good enough. I made my own god instead.” Sit back and imagine that.
“There are so many Atheists and Evolutionists who can’t find the evidence…” Notice the difference between my REAL quote, and your modified quote? I didn’t claim that “Atheists can’t find God…” in the Universal/Absolute sense. I was speaking about a particular fraction of the Atheists in the world.
“and man is effectively a slave. Death was the result of man’s disobedience. A righteous God allows punishment. Suppose I asked you, “What type of judge would allow citizens freedom? Additionally, why type of judge would punish people for using their freedom how they wish!?” The answer, a just Judge.”
I see, so what standard do you use to say that punishment and adhearance to commandments is not a slave? (It’s not freewill if the punishment is obvious).
A just judge wouldn’t allow freedoms to harm people if it was preventable, but God is capable of preventing evil, thus every murder, every rape was the result of God allowing it to happen. A just judge (or a people’s choice of one) would prevent it at most or all costs.
What is wrong with God destroying a people that were in complete defiance of his commandments?
Nothing is wrong, other than proof he allowed something to happen and went back to fix it. A good use of his time and energy.
Allowing the killing and killing are not that different, especially when one is capable of stopping it.
“God didn’t need an iterative process to get man into existence, nor did he need billions of years of trial and error to somehow get sexual reproduction to work.
“
Again, you’re judging God by your standards. I could easily say God doesn’t need us to learn either, or God doesn’t need us to behave either, or God can make us so perfectly happy and spoiled we’d not want to commit any crimes. And just imagine how much simply life would be if we could reproduce asexually, we’d probably save lots of trouble with porn and rape.
How would you like to look into the eyes of the Creator of the Universe and tell him, “You weren’t good enough. I made my own god instead.” Sit back and imagine that.
Thanks for asking me and letting me say it again : I WOULD LOVE TO.
“Notice the difference between my REAL quote, and your modified quote?”
Yes, sorry if I wasn’t clear either, I was only reminding you the obvious that not all atheists are like that, and some stupid ones are.
As for Dahmer, he’s an idiot for thinking he can do all he wants because there’s no God. He’s obviously ignoring the fact what he did was illegal in man’s law. It’s not that he doesn’t believe in God, he’s got no respect for man either!!
In fact, had he known there’s no God, I’d expect him to have MORE reason to act right, because vigilante justice and legal justice will catch on to him and there’s no forgiveness, THAT’S NOT A GOOD REASON TO ACT RIGHT?
Besides, why should we as humans punish another if there’s a God that’ll do it? It’s seriously because we DON’T want to wait for God that we punish people here on Earth.
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